Nano overheating issue.

Seem to be having an issue with the Nano in the 3D case. After awhile running it starts scanning and stopping repeatedly then eventually the display freezes and locks up. Have to shut it down and restart then it repeats the issue. Out of the case it seems to be running ok so far. Seems like an overheating issue wondering if any else has had this issue? Works great till it gets hot otherwise.

I will be sending you an email.

Apparently Shopify doesn't allow you to log-in to your website anymore unless you have your phone on you. This seems to be a disturbing new trend. It may take me a few to reply. Sorry.

[edit]
email sent

I was on the road today and the car was warm mine started to freeze up a go back to working. It was doing it on and off till I turned on the ac. It went back to normal.

Just to clarify that that the Nano does not have a heat issue sun and warm conditions is not electronics friend. Good ventilation there is no problem in my situation I had sun hitting on it.

In order to clarify, the Nano is designed to run ok at normal room temperatures (~77F). It uses a linear voltage regulator to reduce the USB 5V supply to the needed 3.3V supply. Linear regulators generate heat. If there is an issue with one of the parts drawing too much power (actual silicon issue), it can cause overheating. In this case, the voltage regulator may shutdown (thermal protection). If your Nano runs fine at room temperatures, there is no hardware issue. I'm thinking of a design change that will replace the linear regulator with a switching supply now that ICs are becoming available again. It will add to the cost, but would allow you to run in much warmer outdoor conditions.

Mine unfortunately was at a room temperature of around 77 degrees and there wasn’t any sun or additional heat source near it inside my radio room. Its been returned to Todd for a check up.

That would be great if you can change the regulator to handle the temperature changes as long it doesn't create other problems in the operating system.

Cheif wrote:That would be great if you can change the regulator to handle the temperature changes as long it doesn't create other problems in the operating system.

It shouldn't cause any issues. I've designed many transceivers with switching supplies. some with several. During the parts shortages the past few years, it was hard to find most power supply ICs. The shortages seem to be over for the most part now. I already have a design update ready to go. I'll post in the NEWS thread when I have a prototype tested.

I've also been experiencing this issue. I also noticed when this happens the device disconnects and reconnects to my computer each time it receives a call. At first I only has one device doing this, now two of them are doing it.

Unfortunately I haven't had a lot of time to dive into the issue until now.

Are the two Nanos in an enclousure?

Yes they were. I took all of them out of the enclosures today after seeing this post. So far they seem to be operating appropriately after being removed from the enclosures.

scannerboy02 wrote:I've also been experiencing this issue. I also noticed when this happens the device disconnects and reconnects to my computer each time it receives a call. At first I only has one device doing this, now two of them are doing it.

Unfortunately I haven't had a lot of time to dive into the issue until now.

I'm sorry to hear it. I currently have two related returns I'm working on (including the one from this thread). It is apparent that I need to find a solution for this. The issue is that the linear 3V regulator is going into thermal shutdown. The 3 solutions for a Nano overheating issue are 1) to get rid of the heat more efficiently. Removing it from the enclosure is one way as you pointed out. 2) Lower the supply current.  Try turning the Wio display brightness down to 20-30%. This may be all it takes for a marginal case.  3) Lower the USB supply voltage from 5V down to something closer to 4V. This is probably the solution I will work on for existing Nano users. My current plan is to quickly design a small USB 5V to USB 3.x-4.x V board that can be plugged inline. I will only charge for cost of materials to customers who purchased the Nano.

This is my last week of having a day-job / income stream. Starting next week, I will be giving 100% attention to BlueTail Technologies business. I hope I can find ways to generate some new interest and products quickly. A solution to this problem will be first on the list. Thank you for being great customers. Sorry I let you down on this one. I will make it up to you.
Todd

Would doing something like (carefully) drilling a few holes in the enclosure be worth trying? As I mentioned above taking them out of the enclosure seems to have fixed the issue for me so it's not really a major problem.

scannerboy02 wrote:Would doing something like (carefully) drilling a few holes in the enclosure be worth trying? As I mentioned above taking them out of the enclosure seems to have fixed the issue for me so it's not really a major problem.

Please try lowering the Wio brightness first. Try 20 or 30%.

A follow-up to this.  I did get both of the returns back out. One of them was an actual hardware issue causing the over-heating. I couldn't find an issue with the other return. I almost have the inline USB power supply  (5V to 3.x-4.x V) ready to order pcbs. This should easily take care of the heat issues if there are no issues with the design. I will update when I receive boards. In the meantime, please do try lowering the Wio brightness to 20-30% if you are having issues with overheating.

This is the pcb for the regulator. This will have USB type-A male and female connectors and can be placed inline to convert the 5V down to whatever we can get away with (4V?  3.6V). The conversion is 90% efficient, so almost no heat generation. By dropping the voltage down close to the actual operating voltages, the heat generation on the Nano (or other USB devices with linear regulators), will be significantly reduced. The data lines are connected, so you can still use the Eagle monitor / configuration software with the regulator. I will work on making a nice plastic enclosure for the regulator as well.

Trying an experiment to improve airflow thru case. I cut out the top portion of the back case above the open area hoping this will improve circulation.

Well the mod helped some I had a five degree improvement before the Nano started acting up. It use to start freezing at 75 degrees room temp now it makes it to 80 before freezing. Had it running for five hours before it hit 80 in the room and it probably took about an hour to overheat after the room temperature hit 80. I know Todd will get this issue straightened out . The Nano works great other than this issue.

The USB buck regulator boards are ordered and may show up as early as next week. I have an enclosure designed for them. It might need some minor adjustments, but I should be ready to get these shipped quickly when the boards arrive.

Todd
What will the cost be?
Also will this powe supply power the Micro?

Thanks

Steve

SteveH wrote:Todd
What will the cost be?
Also will this powe supply power the Micro?

Thanks

Steve

Normal cost: $45.  Cost for Nano customers is $15 with promo code (plus shipping). I'll give you the code later. I think it will work with the Micro as well. It won't hurt to try it. It should work with any USB device that doesn't require more than the regulated output voltage. I designed it for 3.3V output, but I may end up adjusting that after testing.

The buck regulator boards showed up today. So far, everything is working as expected. Enclosures are in the process of printing and testing is in process. Will have test results for power requirement reduction (heat reduction) in Nano, P25RX, and P25RX-II models soon.

I was able to reproduce the issue today. The new buck regulator is the solution. The MCU temperature inside of an enclosure was measured to be 12 degrees C cooler with the USB inline voltage regulator. I'll include some plots and measurements with the Nano, P25RX, and P25RX-II. Note that you don't need the buck regulator for the P25RX/P25RX-II, but I wanted to demonstrate that the device can work with multiple USB devices if they don't require more than 3.3V to operate.

That should do it it doesn't take much to keep it from overheating and dropping in and out.I noticed
if I have it sitting on my workbench and the ceiling fan in the shack is circulating some air around it
it works fine without overheating. I did ventilate the enclosure with a few more holes in the back to
help dissipate the heat. Probably unnecessary now with the new regulator but can't hurt  lol .

N9ihx wrote:That should do it it doesn't take much to keep it from overheating and dropping in and out.I noticed
if I have it sitting on my workbench and the ceiling fan in the shack is circulating some air around it
it works fine without overheating. I did ventilate the enclosure with a few more holes in the back to
help dissipate the heat. Probably unnecessary now with the new regulator but can't hurt  lol .

Yes, I'm confident this will take care of the issue for you. This should give you at least 20F margin.

btt, Nice work on temperature improvement.! The geek engineer in me is wondering specs - the Vin range and the Max I out of your reg board design. Also is the Vout adjustable or do you have it fixed at 3v3? Only asking because some cheap USB cables will have a voltage drop from 5v into the reg board.

FreqNOut wrote:btt, Nice work on temperature improvement.! The geek engineer in me is wondering specs - the Vin range and the Max I out of your reg board design. Also is the Vout adjustable or do you have it fixed at 3v3? Only asking because some cheap USB cables will have a voltage drop from 5v into the reg board.

Thanks.  The Vin specs are 3.7V to 16V and the Iout is 1.5A max. The regulator is an adjustable type. I've compensated for voltage drop on the cable. To change the output voltage requires changing an 0805 resistor.

[edit] Some additional notes:  The input caps are rated to 16V, the reg IC is rated to 17V, the switch inductor is rated to 3.5A and the output filter inductor is rated to 1.6A. The regulator FET/switch (integrated on reg IC) is rated to 1.5A. The switch frequency is fixed ~1MHz.

I'm sending some out for testing this morning. Hopefully, we will hear back with some good reports soon.

You need a tester let me know.

Cheif wrote:You need a tester let me know.

Back from the post office. They are closed for some reason. I put them in the dropbox, so they should be on the way sometime tomorrow.

Testing for heat issue with the new regulator but I discovered another issue. With the regulator in line there is a hum and possibly some digital noise coming thru the speaker. Tried 3 different power supplies and two different speakers just to see if it was something here. Also powered it with a battery pack got hum with all.Wondering if anyone else testing the new regulator is seeing the same issue?

N9ihx wrote:Testing for heat issue with the new regulator but I discovered another issue. With the regulator in line there is a hum and possibly some digital noise coming thru the speaker. Tried 3 different power supplies and two different speakers just to see if it was something here. Also powered it with a battery pack got hum with all.Wondering if anyone else testing the new regulator is seeing the same issue?

Do you have the "keep speaker awake" option on in the configuration?  It shows up in the configuration file as SPEAKER_KEEP_ALIVE=x, where x is 0 or 1 (enable). This will result in a low-level noise sound to keep bluetooth speakers from sleeping (and causing you to miss parts of conversation).

[edit] Just watched the video you sent. That isn't the "keep speaker awake" noise. That sounds like you are getting some inductive coupling into your speaker/amplifier. Try moving your speaker away from the power cable.

I'm testing the 3.5mm audio jack now with the buck regulator. Not hearing any hum here. Nice and clean, loud audio. The regulator output was measured to be very clean. Not sure what the issue could be. I'll think about it.

I am running off a battery pack with the buck regulator no hum audio is clear and clean.

First thing I checked was keep awake its off. Tried about everything will play with it some more.

Cheif wrote:I am running off a battery pack with the buck regulator no hum audio is clear and clean.

Ok. Good to know it isn't an issue with BTT hardware. That sounds like your main USB power supply has an issue. Can you meausre the 5V line on your USB power source with on o-scope?

Did you change the power cable to see if it goes away? I had problems like that bad or cheap cables got me.

N9ihx wrote:First thing I checked was keep awake its off. Tried about everything will play with it some more.

I am able to reproduce the audio hum on a different USB power source with < 5V output. I have it resolved here, but unfortunatley it requires changing the output voltage of the buck regulator to compensate for the USB power supply. This is done by changing a resistor in the buck regulator. At this point, it isn't worth the cost of shipping them back and forth. After the others test with their USB supplies, I will send out new regulators to anyone having issues.

I have tried 4 different supplies issue is the same with all including a battery pack. Also tried different cables made no difference. Even took it to a different location with different antennas still the same. Works fine without the regulator inline.

Cheif wrote:I am running off a battery pack with the buck regulator no hum audio is clear and clean.

Sorry, just noticed that when I replied to you, I thought I was replying to N9ihx. I see now that N9ihx doesn't have it working with any supplies including battery packs. Probably means others will have issues as well. Let me know if any of your other supplies cause audio hum.

I will check my usb supply later doing heat test now. Todd can I run 2 Nanos off one buck regulator so I can try different brightness settings?

Cheif wrote:I will check my usb supply later doing heat test now. Todd can I run 2 Nanos off one buck regulator so I can try different brightness settings?

It is designed to handle 1.5 amps, so you should be able to run two Nanos from a single regulator if you have a way to split it for a power-only application.

Thanks I will see what I can come up with.

N9ihx wrote:I have tried 4 different supplies issue is the same with all including a battery pack.  Also tried different cables made no difference. Even took it to a different location with different antennas still the same. Works fine without the regulator inline.

I will be shipping out another regulator to you later today. Thanks for all the testing / feedback.

Testing with the modified buck regulator looks like it will end up being approximately 2 degrees C increase in temperature (with Wio + enclosure). This is 10C cooler than without the buck regulator vs 12C before the change.

I have both running now on one regulator. I started out with both Nanos running with out the regulator. This was done outside 93 degs turned both brightness to 100%. When they both stopped running I plugged one in the buck regulator at 100% brightness. It's been 2 hours now no problem. Turn on the other nano and set the brightness to 40% and after awhile it locked up. I now have both running one at 100% and one at 40% with the regulator. I will run them inside and outside 24/7 . My next test will be the hot car not turning it off to see what happens. All testing done in the shade.

The temperature on the 100% brightness is 114.8F. The other one set at 40% brightness is 114.4F. The buck regulator running both is 127.9F. Outside temperature 94F. Both units are in a box so they're is no draft.

I should have mentioned that I used a laser for temp shot though the top vent holes.

I received the regulators a few hours ago and they have been operational since then with no issues.

Thank you for always being willing to make things right!